Nitrate problems

So guys I'm back. so my tank crashed back in November and I lost my 2 cardnialfish, my midas blenny and fairy wrasse when my ammonia spiked up to 16ppm. now I believe that a chemical I was dosing to control red slime algae may have destroyed the beneficial bacteria and caused the crash. after many water changes and adding microbe-lift special blend the ammonia turned into 2ppm of nitrite then 160ppm of nitrate which has gone down to 80ppm of nitrate. currently my ammonia and nitrite are both 0ppm. I talked to an owner of a LFS and he ran some water tests for me and the nitrate came back as about 80ppm. The guy said basically to do a 25% water change today and then come back on Friday and he would test the levels again. I was thinking of starting off with a pair of ocellaris clowns and he said that if I can get the levels down to 40ppm then I should be able to add the clowns.For 10$ each I'm willing to at least try it. What do you guys think?

I'm one of those reefers that will wait until all my levels are in check before I add fish, even though it *sucks* waiting. I just don't like putting an animal's health at risk simply because I have no patience to wait. In my opinion, I would wait longer if I were you. Do your water changes and keep getting your levels tested. Once your nitrate is down to 10 or less, then I'd say it's safe to add the clowns. Just my $.02

I say wait too. Let nature run its course. It will be better in the long run for your tank.

+1 here too.

Nothing good in this hobby happens fast.

+1. Nothing good happens fast in reef tanks.

Alright so I did some more research and I fouund that most people recommend that nitrates be kept under 30ppm in FOWLR tanks. So I will get the nitrates there and add the clownfish and than get the lvls going down to <10 and then continue stocking my tank.

Originally Posted by LadyOfIreland

I'm one of those reefers that will wait until all my levels are in check before I add fish, even though it *sucks* waiting. I just don't like putting an animal's health at risk simply because I have no patience to wait. In my opinion, I would wait longer if I were you. Do your water changes and keep getting your levels tested. Once your nitrate is down to 10 or less, then I'd say it's safe to add the clowns. Just my $.02

Originally Posted by rgrking

I say wait too. Let nature run its course. It will be better in the long run for your tank.

How big is your tank? I would recommend adding a deep sand bed before doing anything else. If you are having trouble getting nitrates down without fish, it will be much more difficult with fish.

My deep sand bed keeps my nitrates at zero without having to do anything but leave it alone, might be something to consider...

So my tank is a 72 gallon bow front. I currently added enough sand to make half my substrate a DSB to accommodate jawfish on the future but when I go to the store on Friday I will buy another bag of sand. How long does it take for the bacteria to colonize the sanded?

Originally Posted by spinycheek

How big is your tank? I would recommend adding a deep sand bed before doing anything else. If you are having trouble getting nitrates down without fish, it will be much more difficult with fish.

My deep sand bed keeps my nitrates at zero without having to do anything but leave it alone, might be something to consider...

4 to 6 weeks. Is it fine grain sand? Larger grains will require more depth to become anaerobic.

+1 on waiting.

If you do several 25% water changes the trates will drop faster. If you add the fish too soon you run the risk of another tank crash.

well the new sand is fine grained is about 2" deep and the old sand with is crushed coral is also about 2" deep. do you think that adding bacterial cultures could speed up the colonization process?

Originally Posted by spinycheek

4 to 6 weeks. Is it fine grain sand? Larger grains will require more depth to become anaerobic.

yea the last thing I need is another tank crash... but the clowns should be good at <30ppm for a little bit right?

Originally Posted by Pat B

+1 on waiting.

If you do several 25% water changes the trates will drop faster. If you add the fish too soon you run the risk of another tank crash.

Originally Posted by hotshotdevil32

well the new sand is fine grained is about 2" deep and the old sand with is crushed coral is also about 2" deep. do you think that adding bacterial cultures could speed up the colonization process?

yea the last thing I need is another tank crash... but the clowns should be good at <30ppm for a little bit right?

I don't know about DSBs so I can't help there.

They may be ok at <30, but <10 would be much better. If you do a few extra water changes that number will fall fast. I know waiting is hard to do, but it would be better for the fish in the long run.

I wouldn't add anything. You can stir the top layer, maybe a half an inch, of sand every couple of days and it will help to spread it. Don't disturb the deeper sand though.

Originally Posted by hotshotdevil32

...yea the last thing I need is another tank crash... but the clowns should be good at <30ppm for a little bit right?

While clownfish are hardy, it's really a coin-toss as to whether they will make it or not. Remember they will be coming from your LFS's tank, which I'm assuming has <10 nitrates. Acclimating a fish from perfect water conditions to those with less-than stellar nitrate levels is always risky. If the clownfish had been in perfect water whose nitrate levels had slowly risen to 30, they probably would be fine, because they would have been slowly acclimating WITH the raise in nitrates over time. That's would not be the case in your situation, since you'd be acclimating them in less than a day, so there is always risk.

I still think you should wait a little longer until your nitrates are lower. With 25% water changes, your nitrate levels should balance out very quickly.

I think I may have given the false impression of being impatient I'm willing to wait as long as I need to but I play rugby at my school and practice starts next monday. from that point on I will be much more busy and I'm trying to get fish in before than. if the numbers aren't at 30 by sunday I will wait till they are at <10 but if they are I will add fish then so I have at least one free day to acclimate the fish well and the whole 9 yards.

Originally Posted by Pat B

I don't know about DSBs so I can't help there.

They may be ok at <30, but <10 would be much better. If you do a few extra water changes that number will fall fast. I know waiting is hard to do, but it would be better for the fish in the long run.

If I just spread the sand than there won't be enough for a DSB or the jawfish. will it cause a problem if I add the sand. IMO it would look better with more sand anyway!

Originally Posted by rgrking

I wouldn't add anything. You can stir the top layer, maybe a half an inch, of sand every couple of days and it will help to spread it. Don't disturb the deeper sand though.

keep in mind also that adding more sand will setoff another cycle as the dead bacteria in the sand goes through the ol' ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle.....

I love sand!! And, I love deeper sandbeds.. I agree with spiny, it really does help you keep a bulletproof tank (assuming you aren't loading your tank up with crap like dosing extra bacterias and quick fixes). When you have a sandbed, things can get trapped easily, and wait around to "rear their ugly head" later on ...

I'm curious, do you still have the cyano problem??? Maybe instead of focusing on adding new fish, we can focus on solving the nuisance algae problem while you are working to get your nitrates down, so you can add any fish you want!

I know that is the norm but I just added a bag of sand from the LFS and the guy said it was really fresh so there shouldn't be a cycle. lo and behold there wasn't any so whatever he has must be very new! and I no longer have a cyano problem because I siphoned most of it out and I figure once the nitrates are down it will never come back. and like you said I did some more research on DSB and a lot of people say that it adds greatly to the stability and hardiness of a system.

Originally Posted by estanoche

keep in mind also that adding more sand will setoff another cycle as the dead bacteria in the sand goes through the ol' ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle.....

I love sand!! And, I love deeper sandbeds.. I agree with spiny, it really does help you keep a bulletproof tank (assuming you aren't loading your tank up with crap like dosing extra bacterias and quick fixes). When you have a sandbed, things can get trapped easily, and wait around to "rear their ugly head" later on ...

I'm curious, do you still have the cyano problem??? Maybe instead of focusing on adding new fish, we can focus on solving the nuisance algae problem while you are working to get your nitrates down, so you can add any fish you want!

Hows the tank Alex?

So I guess this is part where I crawl back with a tail between my legs... The chromis are all dead knocked off one by one by the nitrate (that is an assumption). The nitrates are still high and there is cyanobacteria all over the tank. So I went to pet smart and bought some stuff hoping to avoid buying a nitrate reactor. first off I bought some erythromycin which I was told can be used to control cyanobacteria. Has anyone had any luck using this for that purpose? Also I bought a media called clearmax from fluvial that removes nitrate and phosphates from the water so I figured I would stick that in the sump too. Finally I'm going to order some high quality test kits so I know what the hells going on in the tank instead of it being a guessing game... I was think about salfiert.

Originally Posted by chris&barb

Hows the tank Alex?

Antibiotics will kill the cyano- and a lot of other beneficial bateria, too.

I really hesitate to add cures-in-a-bottle as it usually masks problems instead of fixing them, but there is one that I can recommend for cyano, that's boyd's Chemi-clean. It's an oxidizer, and seems to knock cyano down without affecting other beneficial bacteria.

As far as the nitrates and phosphates go, I assume you've stopped feeding the tank at all? Do you have a refugium chamber in your sump? You could grow and harvest macroalgae there, which will wick out both nitrates and phosphates.